So I FINALLY got my book! I am super excited! I plan on reading it again tomorrow. It's really hard for me to write a review or tell you about without it being a spoiler. There's just too much to say!!
Therefore...I need to know...how much do you want to know? Or I can just write it up anyways and let you decide whether or not you want to know.
What did you think of it? And congrats on being the first member to read the new series!
lol Thanks! I really liked it. It was a very fast read for me. It's significantly bigger than the other GNs. There is a LOT of foreshadowing...(some very obvious) "events" or clues that will lead to the next book and probably throughout the series.
I really want to give a whole run down of the book but I don't want to ruin it for anyone.
Illustration quality is GREAT. I am not a big fan of their hair lol but they're fairly consistent with the older GNs otherwise.
Also, without spoiling too much yet, I will say that this series seems like it will bring up things that we wonder about as fans (what ifs). Let's just say they aren't perfect.
Ok so I decided to write something up.... It's a little on and VERY spoilerish...I pretty much wrote a play by play. It's a little rushed so not the best but here ya go...
Crawling with Zombies
Review/info
Characters
Frank
Joe
Laura
Aunt Trudy
Fenton
Belinda Conrad
Chet Morton
Taylor Dent
Chief Collig (note?it?s not Sheriff?yay!)
Goons and bad guys
Chapter One: Speed Trap
Frank and Joe are on motorcross bikes and being chased by the bad guys. Apparently, these bad guys were interested in computer chips. They race faster and faster but still manage to bicker about how the whole thing went down. Joe claims that if they had done what he wanted, they would have been halfway home instead of being in a hot chase. Frank counters that his way allowed them to discover how these criminals were able to get through the security system [to get the chips].
Frank instructs Joe to skid deliberately. The skidding causes sand to hit the criminals in their eyes and distract them enough to crash, fall off, etc. The Hardys win. Frank calls Joe his little brother and Joe asks him not to call him that.
?Yeah, I know you didn?t mean anything by it. It?s just sometimes ?I get tired of being the ?younger Hardy boy brother?.?
Before Frank could say anything, a police officer comes to talk to them, mentions they are Fenton?s sons, and of course tells them not to be crimefighters.
?American teens against crime.??Frank
?The idea?s ridiculous.?-Joe
Back at home, Aunt Trudy gets them a present for the anniversary of her living with them. She tells them that she got rid of their old game system and got them a new zbox. Frank and Joe FREAK OUT because that?s what they use to listen to their ATAC assignments. Aunt Trudy is hurt but Fenton saves the day. He tells them that when he heard what she was doing, he got them a new game. Of course they are excited and take it immediately to watch it. They realize that ATAC gave them an upgraded system. Surprise, surprise?the game was a new case.
The game/mission tells them that a new trend in flash mobs has started with a group of zombies. Up until now they were just for fun. Kids would get a random text or notification on a social network to come to a location, get dressed (or already be dressed) as a zombie. Then they would trick or ?terrorize? the locals. Unfortunately at one of these events, a girl walked straight into oncoming traffic and was hit by a car. She survived and told police she didn?t know why she felt compelled to walk in front a car. More incidents were happening other places too. Frank and Joe were to look into it before the accidents turned deadly.
Joe asks if social networking is something that Frank?s girlfriend Belinda Conrad is into and Frank states that she is not his girlfriend. However, it appears that Frank wouldn?t mind if she was. No Callie here. Anyways, Joe pokes fun at Frank for not being smooth with the ladies. They ride off, Joe calling Frank ?big brother? and asking that they ?don?t think, just do? for once.
Chapter 3 (I don?t know what happened to Chapter 2): Two?s Company, Three?s a Crowd
Here they are at Chet?s house. Belinda happened to be there studying for a test. Chet looks online to see if he can find any mention of a new flash mob coming up anytime soon. After checking all of his resources, he comes up empty handed.
Joe coaxes Belinda into helping by offering her dinner with Frank. She tells Frank that she likes Italian or Chinese. Frank responds that he likes Italian. Frank mentions that he is not happy with Joe for doing that however.
Belinda figures out that the next flash mob was going to happen at museum row that night. Joe is eager to go but Frank wants to make a plan first. This does not go over well with Joe who starts yelling at Frank. He wants to do it ?Indiana Jones? style and make it up as they go. Frank insists that it?s better to have a plan because they don?t know what they will be getting into. Joe presses on encouraging Frank to have some fun, but Frank is not budging.
Heated and shouting, Joe leaves with Chet, leaving Frank to go in their car. They split up.
Belinda tags along with Frank even though he doesn?t want her in danger. After Belinda discovers where the tweet came from, Frank gets ready to leave. In true Hardy girl fashion, she insists, and he gives in. So they take the Hardy?s red sporty convertible to the Bayport Science Lab.
Chapter 4: Their Chemical Romance
Joe and Chet arrive at the flash mob. A sea of teenagers in zombie costumes is all they can see. Joe notices three older guys dressed up and observes that they seem out of place. Chet notices that a lot of the kids there were more goth and therefore they stuck out too. To solve that problem, they approach a girl near some zombie make up and start getting into zombie mode.
Meanwhile, Frank and Belinda are at the lab trying to figure out who might have sent the tweester update. It turns out to be Taylor Dent, a girl from Bayport. They see her carrying a canister of something and chase her after finding out that she started the zombie crawl. She makes comments about no one noticing her, people not caring what she does, etc. Then she runs away with the chemicals and they chase her. While in pursuit, Belinda asks Frank what is going on and he tries to cover his tracks. He can?t tell her about ATAC. Unfortunately for him, she doesn?t believe him. However, at this point they catch up to Taylor and she?s standing in a doorway with the canister of chemicals.
Back at the zombie crawl, Joe and Chet are now completely in costume. They start feeling strange though and can?t control themselves. Neither can the other zombies.
Oops...too long. Here's the rest. Highlight over the white.
Chapter 5: Zombies on Parade
Taylor rants on and on about moving from?wait for it?River Heights and still being ignored at Bayport. She wanted to hurt her peers like she had been treated (?like a mindless zombie?). Plus, she claims she was getting paid for it as well. Before Frank could find out who was paying her to use it, Taylor is shot and killed.
The canister spills and Belinda recognizes the smell and creamy substance as shea butter. Realizing that it is used in make up, Frank realizes that Joe and Chet were at the zombie crawl already and probably part of a large mob. The mob would distract police so the three aforementioned out of place criminals could steal from the museum. While racing to Joe?s aid, Frank is adamant that Joe always gets himself out of trouble. Then, in his thought bubble, he tells Joe that he is counting on him not to get himself killed.
Back at the museum, Chet and Joe are moving along with the rest of the kids approaching the building. The security guards don?t know what to do and threaten to call the cops. The zombies continue to walk. Joe and Chet comment that it is hard for them to think, walk, and everything looked and sounded weird.
Chapter Six: The Monster Inside Me
As they walk in, there is a huge fountain. Joe feels like he is on fire and decides to take a dip in the fountain water.
Frank and Belinda arrive to the commotion and quickly see the three men trying to steal a gold statue. Chet comes by and Belinda tries to shake him free of the zombie grasp. Joe shows up complaining of a headache but was free of the zombie makeup trance.
Frank deduces that Joe?s dip in the water caused his make up to run and therefore not feel entranced anymore. Frank then causes what he calls reversing a ?group brain washing? by turning the fire alarm and sprinkler system on. The water washed away the make up and woke up the zombies.
Frank and Joe take action and try to stop the bad guys. Frank calls Joe his little brother again, and again, Joe is upset about that. ?I?m not little anymore!? is what he shouts while they fight the large men. Frank tells Joe to go after the statue as it is flying in midair but he can?t because Frank is in his way. Luckily, Belinda catches it and claims that now Frank owes her two dinners.
The next morning, Fenton congratulates the boys on a job well done. However, from what they learned from the 3 guys they caught, there was still a ?puppet master? originating in River Heights that they would have to investigate.
Fenton then starts to say that they have two different approaches. Frank and Joe end up in an argument about how things went down the previous night. Frank yells at Joe for going in half cocked and almost getting himself killed. Joe argues that his dip in the water fountain was how Frank figured out how to stop the crooks.
?It was a calculated risk, and I?d do it again.?-Joe
?Not if I have anything to say about it!?-Frank
?You won?t. You?re my brother. Not my boss.?-Joe
Fenton interjects and says that they are brothers and partners but they will be late for school. Both boys bid farewell to their parents and head out upset at one another.
Laura asks if something was wrong because she heard arguing. Fenton says ?Our boys have been 'the Hardy boys' so long we sometimes forget they are two different young men, with their own minds, and own points of view.?
Laura asks if they should be worried and Fenton says that they will have rough times ahead but hopefully they will face them together.
The End.
So?I am just dying to know what you think! I did this kind of rushed so it?s not as good as I guess it could be. I tried to get the gist of what was going on. Oh, and just letting you know that it?s vague as to what chemicals are being used with the make-up. It wasn't something I left out...
The references to River Heights definitely lead to a Nancy Drew cross over. I am not a big fan of hers, but I did look the preview for her new GN?I wasn?t that impressed. I am biased though.
Also, why Belinda?? What happened to Callie and Iola?? I should also mention that Belinda is another blond haired love interest for Frank.
The biggest thing of all?the Hardy Boys fighting?! Makes me think even more that Break Up will be about that!! They better get back together or I will be TICKED OFF! Seriously?I knew this would happen eventually?but they better make it right somehow. I cannot wait for the next one! I am loving this new series already!
The size of the book is larger than the older GNs by a lot but there are fewer pages within the story. It's a fast read and has GREAT illustrations!!
Quote from: hardygirl847 on October 22, 2010, 04:33:43 PM
lol Thanks! I really liked it. It was a very fast read for me. It's significantly bigger than the other GNs. There is a LOT of foreshadowing...(some very obvious) "events" or clues that will lead to the next book and probably throughout the series.
I really want to give a whole run down of the book but I don't want to ruin it for anyone.
Illustration quality is GREAT. I am not a big fan of their hair lol but they're fairly consistent with the older GNs otherwise.
Also, without spoiling too much yet, I will say that this series seems like it will bring up things that we wonder about as fans (what ifs). Let's just say they aren't perfect.
Sounds good. It's cool that they're setting-up further developments for the series.
Yeah definitely more to come. Spencer, did you resist reading the review/synopsis I wrote? Hopefully you get your copy soon! I'd love to hear what you thought.
Quote from: hardygirl847 on October 24, 2010, 12:15:58 PM
Yeah definitely more to come. Spencer, did you resist reading the review/synopsis I wrote? Hopefully you get your copy soon! I'd love to hear what you thought.
Yeah, I resisted. I don't like spoilers.
You have willpower! :) Awesome. Now, I will have to patiently wait for you to get your copy so we can discuss it further.
Did you also get the Nancy Drew New Casefile as well to see what the jab in the cover blurb was about?
No, I didn't because I'm not a huge ND fan. Sorry :( There is a small preview though from it in the back of the CWZ Hardy Boy book. I'm not a fan of the artwork and it seems ....I dunno...."eh". Again, I'm not the best judge.
I got both the Crawling with Zombies and the Nancy Drew, Vampire Slayer (Part 1) graphic novels, but on the surface I haven't noticed a ton of connection. However, I haven't yet actually read the stories. But I have read the note from the publisher for both and I did notice that one one of them, he actually mentioned that someone in the Hardy Boys story is mentioned as being from River Heights and so he kind of hints that there may be something up with that in future issues. So perhaps we'll see what comes of it in the 2nd. part to the Nancy Drew story- or it could be setting up for an ongoing thing later in the series. We'll see.
MacGyver, if you read my spoiler you would know that River Heights is definitely mentioned and we are led to believe they will be going there. But I will say no more....don't want to ruin it. READ IT ALREADY so we can discuss it more. :D
Getting my copy tomorrow!
Wahoo Spencer!! I REALLY want to know what you think! Read it quickly and come discuss asap! :)
I really liked it. I thought it was cool how it set-up and foreshadowed so many future subplots. Not only that, with the mastermind of the bad guys still a mystery, the next title looks to be a direct continuation of this one! Pretty unheard of in Hardy land. I really enjoyed the last series but Scott Lobdell's biggest down fall was that his stories felt to rushed. I'm glad Conway is telling his stories over multiple books.
There was quite a few quotes that I really liked. Some ironic almost fourth wall breaking stuff. I will post them later.
Anyway, this is what it seems we have to look forward to in this series:
a) the "break-up" of Frank and Joe
b) a crossover with Nancy Drew
c) Frank and Belinda dating?
EDIT: I like the new larger format but some of the art looked grainy, as if it wasn't meant for this size. It was even worse in the Nancy Drew preview. Hopefully this isn't the case with future titles.
Yay! You finally read it so we can discuss it more!! :)
I definitely enjoyed the foreshadowing. We know more of where this series is going overall. Like you said, the other GNs were more rushed. Everything had to be wrapped up by the end. So glad that this is going to be different. I felt like Conway brought a different side of the boys to light. They bicker a little in other books but this felt more contemporary or something. I'm not sure how it explain it. It was like he was bringing them to 2010 instead of past decades....
Definitely post your quotes. There were some great ones! :)
a) I am looking forward to Frank and Joe breaking up because it's different. They will eventually get back together and I look forward to that as well.
b) Nancy Drew herself doesn't excite me, but I can see where the crossover would be interesting. I am willing to see where this goes. However, I hope the artwork is much better than the preview of her book. :o
c) Frank and Belinda will probably happen but I am pro-Callie so I find her absence to be disappointing. Will Joe have a steady girlfriend or will he be a ladies man in this series? Remember, he's NOT little anymore. ;)
I didn't notice the grainy artwork too much...I'll have to go back and see. I also hope it does not continue though in future installments.
BTW, did you see a title for Chapter 2? I couldn't find one.....lol
Quote from: hardygirl847 on November 04, 2010, 09:00:38 PMa) I am looking forward to Frank and Joe breaking up because it's different. They will eventually get back together and I look forward to that as well.
Same here. I always welcome shaking-up the status-quo in fiction series.
While I oppose the change for The Hardy Men, I don't mind a temporary plot involving their fighting. My main problem with the movie is that they stay that way. I am sure that the boys will get back together. However, I think it's interesting that Conway is taking a risk by doing something that really hasn't been done before. Well, at least not to this extent. I really think it's going to be awesome. The question asked in the teaser is intriguing. Will they be better or as good solo?
This then poses the question....who is better on their own or are they equally matched?
Frank and Joe have both had several instances when they had to work partially on their own. Either one was hurt or missing or they needed to cover more ground.
What do you think?
I don't know that The Hardy Men movie would keep Frank and Joe permanently working on their own. The premise says that they have been off on their own for years and then they reluctantly join forces again- I'm thinking the movie would have them work out their differences and at the end have them reunited (and it feels so good!) so they can be ready for the obvious sequel to be made. ;D
A good model for this might be the 1995 TV-movie follow up to a totally awesome 1980s detective TV series (which, by the way, is a great show that's in the vein of The Hardy Boys)- Simon & Simon: In Trouble Again.
If you've ever seen Simon & Simon, you can see what I'm talking about. Another possibility is the classic '70s cop show Starsky & Hutch (note: the TV series- NOT the movie. Though the movie is probably a good indicator of what Ben Stiller would do with The Hardy Men). Dave Starsky and Ken Hutchinson are partners on the force and good buddies, but it's even better with A.J. Simon and Rick Simon, since they actually are brothers- and for the most part are total opposites. Switch hair colors and you'd have the personalities for Frank and Joe down pat for the most part. 8)
Joe: DON'T CALL ME "LITTLE BROTHER".
I got a kick out of this because I remember some fans complaining once on a forum that they didn't like it when Frank called Joe "little brother."
Cop: YOU'RE FENTON HARDY'S BOYS, AREN'T YOU?
Joe: THAT'S RIGHT, OFFICER.
Cop: YOUR OLD MAN'S A DETECTIVE. THIS ISN'T PART OF SOME CRAZY AMATEUR INVESTIGATION, NOW, IS IT?
I liked this because becuase it's a twist on the classic "You're Fenton's boys, aren't you? How can I help?" scenario - a element of The Hardy Boys that people like to make fun of. At first I thought this was more of the same, but it wasn't. The Hardys have arrived in the post-911 world. lol
Frank: "AMERICAN TEENS AGAINST CRIME."
Joe: THE IDEA'S RIDICULOUS.
Tell me about it! I wondered if Conway was using Joe to voice his own feelings, here, or maybe just echo a many of the fan's. Either way, I thought it was funny.
Trudy: IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO I WAS A TEEN MYSELF.
No kidding! Have you seen what Aunt Trudy looks like in some of these graphic novels? Again, this quote echoes what a lot of fans have been saying.
This quote is in a different vain but I just really liked it. It's something I've never thought of it before and, I think, it sets-up the rest of the series nicely.
Fenton: OUR SONS HAVE BEEN "THE HARDY BOYS" FOR SO LONG SOMETIMES WE FORGET THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT YOUNG MEN, WITH THEIR OWN MINDS, AND THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW.
Laura: SHOULD WE BE WORRIED ABOUT THEM, FENTON?
Fenton: LAURA, I WISH I KNEW. BUT I HAVE A FEELING OUR BOYS ARE FACING SOME TOUGH TIMES. I JUST HOPE THEY CONTINUE TO FACE THEM TOGETHER.
These words and coupled with the picture of Frank and Joe walking away together but with frowns on their faces and the caption, reading NEXT: "BREAK-UP!", were a very ominous way to end the book! Looking forward to the next one already!
Mac,
I'm not familiar with Simon and Simon and sadly I've only seen the Starsky and Hutch movie. :( My gripe about Hardy Men was that they have been estranged for possibly decades. I don't see that happening. Sure they come together for another case and probably get back together, but it's not the same vibe or chemistry as having them be lifelong partners. To me, I can see them growing up together, being a happy crime fighting family with hot wives and cute kids. I guess that's just the optimistic in me. :)
With all that said, I am excited to see how the new GN series explores this separation with them being teenagers. Of course, they will get back together, but I feel that it's somewhat natural for them to quarrel. They are brothers after all.
Spencer,
I LOVE those quotes too!! I mentioned some of them in my spoiler. I especially like the last one. Fenton is definitely giving us a heads up. The one about Joe is very fan based I think. With them only being 1 year apart, I sometimes wonder why Joe is always emphasized as being the "little brother". It's worked for decades but I like the spin on it. It also adds to his character and challenges Frank's role as big brother a little. I am interested in seeing where this goes.
Is it just me or are fans being slightly heard this time around? It feels like Conway's nods to fans are finally letting us be heard. Now...if only Nelvana and the Hardy Men would also do that.... :)
Also, let's see if it continues....
Yeah, I'm hopping to see more nods to the fans in future stories.
About the second chapter thing - I think they just forgot to put the heading in. It should have gone over the shot of the Hardy house. I wonder what the chapter was called?
I noticed that the heading for Chapter 2 was missing as well and that reminded me of The Ocean of Osyria Part 2 comic book where the book started with Chapter 4, and then didn't have another chapeter, until Part 3 came out and started with Chapter 7. (It was fixed for the first printing of the Graphic Novel reissue.)
But I felt that Crawling With Zombies, while interesting, some of the gun scenes felt sort of forced in as if Conway was trying to hard to make the series different from Lobdell's series.
I went to the "Look inside this book" Part in Amazon, but even though the UB GNs and the Casefile GNs are illustrated by the same person, the hardy boys look different... ??? :-\
Quote from: Captain Santa Claus on November 11, 2010, 04:58:46 PM
I noticed that the heading for Chapter 2 was missing as well and that reminded me of The Ocean of Osyria Part 2 comic book where the book started with Chapter 4, and then didn't have another chapeter, until Part 3 came out and started with Chapter 7. (It was fixed for the first printing of the Graphic Novel reissue.)
But I felt that Crawling With Zombies, while interesting, some of the gun scenes felt sort of forced in as if Conway was trying to hard to make the series different from Lobdell's series.
Gun scenes? Didn't Lobdell ever use guns?
Quote from: JoeHardyRocks on November 11, 2010, 05:15:41 PM
I went to the "Look inside this book" Part in Amazon, but even though the UB GNs and the Casefile GNs are illustrated by the same person, the hardy boys look different... ??? :-\
How so?
Lots to respond to....
Spencer,
Maybe we can ask Conway what happened to Chapter 2. I agree that is where it should have been...but it was left absent. A little strange to me. Maybe they will correct it and release it with a fixed version. Somewhat of what Captain Claus was saying. :)
I can see why you think that the boys look a little different, JHR. I have noticed in a few of the older GNs, that the style does change a little. I even was skeptical about whether or not I liked Frank's new hair. lol Then I finally read Deadly Strategy and noticed it was the same as Crawling with Zombies. It's growing on me. :)
I didn't notice guns being overused or forced at all. I felt that everything seemed to flow nicely and made sense. Actually, I thought the dialog was more of Conway's way of being different.
Quote from: hardygirl847 on November 13, 2010, 03:17:53 PM
Lots to respond to....
Spencer,
Maybe we can ask Conway what happened to Chapter 2. I agree that is where it should have been...but it was left absent. A little strange to me. Maybe they will correct it and release it with a fixed version. Somewhat of what Captain Claus was saying. :)
Conway probably wouldn't know anything about it. It's the letterer's job.
Quote from: SDLagent on November 12, 2010, 04:11:31 PM
How so?
I don't really know. They just look a little older, and less like teenagers I guess...
Quote from: SDLagent on November 14, 2010, 12:47:24 AM
Conway probably wouldn't know anything about it. It's the letterer's job.
Oh...well nevermind then. :)
Quote from: JoeHardyRocks on November 14, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
I don't really know. They just look a little older, and less like teenagers I guess...
In certain ones I agree. They do look buff at times. No complaints though! :D
Well, I finally got around to reading this title. And wow- it is just a bit different from Lobdell's run. I kinda find the idea of these various social networking social functions like "zombie crawls" to be pretty stupid, but it was a nice tie-in to current happenings and this series definitely tries hard to tie in with current and hip things for teenagers, so that's good.
I was definitely taken aback by the gunplay involved- not that Lobdell didn't use guns at some point, but I can't recall anyone dying in the graphic novels offhand-or at least not a teenager at point blank range like that. I couldn't help but think we had a bit of Conway's Punisher-style action there.
And there're obvious hints about where the series is heading with Frank and Joe's comments and all- but I hope this doesn't get to be a permanent thing. But it should be fun seeing the Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys crossover- definitely looking forward to that.
Yeah the girl getting killed in the doorway was pretty surprising. Conway is definitely fighting to pull the Hardys into a new direction. I don't think he could have the series continue with them being apart the rest of the time. They will get together again. I look forward to what he will do next. It's going to be interesting. :)
Quote from: MacGyver on December 13, 2010, 07:28:17 PM
Well, I finally got around to reading this title. And wow- it is just a bit different from Lobdell's run. I kinda find the idea of these various social networking social functions like "zombie crawls" to be pretty stupid, but it was a nice tie-in to current happenings and this series definitely tries hard to tie in with current and hip things for teenagers, so that's good.
I was definitely taken aback by the gunplay involved- not that Lobdell didn't use guns at some point, but I can't recall anyone dying in the graphic novels offhand-or at least not a teenager at point blank range like that. I couldn't help but think we had a bit of Conway's Punisher-style action there.
And there're obvious hints about where the series is heading with Frank and Joe's comments and all- but I hope this doesn't get to be a permanent thing. But it should be fun seeing the Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys crossover- definitely looking forward to that.
Quite a few character's died in Lobdell's run. Usually they were found dead, though.
Okay- well, that's the difference then. I don't think you generally saw too many (if any) murders actually taking place in Lobdell's titles.
Unfortunately this kind of violence is everywhere...even for kids to see. I thought it was surprising, but wasn't totally flabbergasted or anything. The sad thing is we get desensitized.
It's a sign of things to come....Hopefully nothing too gruesome will happen in later stories. Especially not to Frank or Joe.
Hopefully not. But when I think of Gerry Conway, I can't help but remember he's a co-creator of The Punisher. That level of violence is definitely way past the limit for The Hardy Boys.
But then again, he's also a co-creator of Firestorm. I don't remember him being too violent. I'm sure Conway knows how to balance those kinds of things though of course.
But it is funny to have a connection to The Punisher and the Marvel comics world with The Hardy Boys. Of course, The Punisher already crossed over with Archie, so I guess Bayport can handle a little vigilante justice if Riverdale can. ;D
But Archie's definitely toned that supposed violence level a good bit with their DC comics crossover- Little Archie and the gang are currently meeting up with the Tiny Titans. Aw, yeah! :D
I'm sure Papercutz is pretty strict on how much violence there is in their titles. They have branded themselves as publishers for teens and "tweens", afterall.
Yeah, I'm sure they would be- it's just funny to think of the change in gears that Conway would have to make from other titles as far as the violence level and such goes. But I guess that's a sign of a good writer in that he can be versatile for different audiences- and follow set guidelines of course.
Well considering the level of swear words that is allowed on television, the perimeters can change. I don't want too much violence in the HBs books but there can be some.
I just finished the whole 1995 series (while doing loads of other stuff too :) ) and they actually SMOKED to get into a building. They complained and said it was a nasty habit, but I was shocked. HBs in the books would NEVER do that.
Interesting how things can change....but I'm sure they will keep it minimal.
Yeah, I think I recall that scene. There are a few things like that in the 1995 The Hardy Boys series that I don't always like. In the "Pilot" episode of MacGyver, MacGyver also did the same thing in order to use the smoke to detect hidden laser beams, but he also made a gagging noise and I'm pretty sure referred to it as a nasty habit. This is also the only time you see him doing this as he generally seems to be against smoking otherwise throughout the series.
Quote from: hardygirl847 on December 15, 2010, 12:13:00 AM
Well considering the level of swear words that is allowed on television, the perimeters can change. I don't want too much violence in the HBs books but there can be some.
I just finished the whole 1995 series (while doing loads of other stuff too :) ) and they actually SMOKED to get into a building. They complained and said it was a nasty habit, but I was shocked. HBs in the books would NEVER do that.
Interesting how things can change....but I'm sure they will keep it minimal.
I don't really see it as out-of-character for Frank and Joe to smoke to smoke to make their cover story more believable or something like that. And in the Original continuity it wouldn't be unlikely for Frank and Joe to pick-up the habit considering Fenton smokes.
I dunno...I don't think they would. FENTON SMOKES? In what book or books does he smoke?
Due to the series starting in the 20s, I can see why it would be in there for an adult to smoke, but I still don't see Frank and Joe doing it. I can see where you're coming from on that one...but to me, they try to stay away from consuming alcohol (at least too much) and smoking.
Now for a case, I guess it's not that crazy but it was different for me.
I don't know that Frank and Joe have ever been seen consuming alcohol. Especially considering that alcohol was contraband when the series started (it was 1927- Prohibition was still in place.) And with the law today, Frank and Joe are underage to drink since neither is 21. So I'm pretty you will never see them drinking at all. I'm not surprised that Fenton is probably depicted as smoking in the original text. In 1927, people were simply not aware of the medical problems, like say lung cancer, that smoking brings on. It was just looked at as a harmless hobby and/or pleasure habit. Even so, I don't think I could ever see Frank and Joe smoking. Somehow, even in those days, it still seems like it was the kind of thing reserved for adults and not something kids would've been allowed to do. Considering that the main audience of The Hardy Boys books are all underage for both smoking and drinking, I would think the writers would be careful to have Joe and Frank stand against those things and never partaking. Even for a case, I don't think that sends a good message.
Quote from: MacGyver on December 15, 2010, 07:26:39 PM
I don't know that Frank and Joe have ever been seen consuming alcohol. Especially considering that alcohol was contraband when the series started (it was 1927- Prohibition was still in place.) And with the law today, Frank and Joe are underage to drink since neither is 21. So I'm pretty you will never see them drinking at all. I'm not surprised that Fenton is probably depicted as smoking in the original text. In 1927, people were simply not aware of the medical problems, like say lung cancer, that smoking brings on. It was just looked at as a harmless hobby and/or pleasure habit. Even so, I don't think I could ever see Frank and Joe smoking. Somehow, even in those days, it still seems like it was the kind of thing reserved for adults and not something kids would've been allowed to do. Considering that the main audience of The Hardy Boys books are all underage for both smoking and drinking, I would think the writers would be careful to have Joe and Frank stand against those things and never partaking. Even for a case, I don't think that sends a good message.
With smoking, I think that in a few of the Original texts from the 20's and 30's there is mention of Fenton having a pipe, just like Carson Drew smoked from a pipe (and Nancy gave him a brand-new pipe in the 1978
Nancy Drew episode
Will The Real Santa Claus...). But whether Fenton actually used the pipe, or just had it around so that whenever friends were over that were smoking from pipes, Fenton could sort of join in without actually smoking, I don't know.
Maybe they used their pipes like Popeye told his son he used his- it's just for tooting, not for smoking. ;)
I don't think Original Frank and Joe would smoke in their teens but when they got a bit older I'm sure they would. In those days everybody smoked.
As for drinking, yeah, I don't think Original Frank and Joe would drink because, like Mac says, is was illegal in the 20 and 30s. I could see Casefiles Frank and Joe having a drink, though. I definitively can't see them getting drunk but I'm sure they'd have a little to drink once and awhile.
I don't know about that. At 17 and 18, Frank and Joe are still underage for drinking, at least in America. It may be different in other countries though.
Would smoking be contradictory to their "wholesome"/hero type images though? I totally see why you think that considering the time period and all.
I just don't see it though. I'd like to think of them as untainted. Just like they don't mention more than kissing. lol Some fanfic that includes sexual references just makes me want to skip that part. I don't wanna know! Lol
As they got older, in an alternate universe or AU, I could see them drinking socially but not to excess at the proper age. I wrote a story where Frank tries a drink or two but doesn't like it. His buddies, on the other hand, were more into it. Not crazy or drunkards but...more than Frank. Obviously Joe wasn't invited because of his age difference. That part of the story was only in there because it starts the whole ball rolling, sorta. Otherwise, I wouldn't have even used it.
Either way, the originals and the Casefiles, didn't have that and I'm glad.
It's a very interesting subject though...
Also, I could see Fenton with a pipe. A pipe is more distinguished and could be casually lit without really being smoked if he was in the company of Carson or someone else that had one.
The bottom line is still that Frank and Joe are 18 and 17, respectively, and in the USA are legally underage for drinking. Technically, Frank is of legal age for smoking, but I really don't think he and Joe ever would. I daresay most every time you see them with any drink anywhere, whether in the Originals, Digests or Casefiles and hopefully the UB, the book specifies that it is a soda. Because the primary audience for these books is way underage for either one of these things and the writers and publishers are certainly not going to set a bad example for kids. This is also why Frank and Joe shouldn't curse because it sets such a horrible example for kids. I know the concern that they come off as being unrealistic goody two shoes is there, but honestly- kids have enough bad examples. They can use all the good ones they can get. And Frank and Joe do have character flaws that they deal with- Joe is impulsive and hot-headed and loses his temper sometimes. So does Frank for that matter, but sometimes he can get a little too callous or prideful. Kids can see them as realistic brothers who deal with these kinds of things but still function together well as a team, loving and forgiving each other. I definitely see them as teetotalers (if that's spelt right- i.e. non-drinkers) and non-smokers.
Quote from: hardygirl847 on December 17, 2010, 08:24:46 PM
Would smoking be contradictory to their "wholesome"/hero type images though? I totally see why you think that considering the time period and all.
Well in the era of the early Original continuity smoking wasn't considered a bad thing so it wouldn't go against the boys' "hero status". Actually, I could see Joe not smoking just to be different or a little rebellious.
Quote from: MacGyver on December 18, 2010, 03:10:20 PM
The bottom line is still that Frank and Joe are 18 and 17, respectively, and in the USA are legally underage for drinking. Technically, Frank is of legal age for smoking, but I really don't think he and Joe ever would. I daresay most every time you see them with any drink anywhere, whether in the Originals, Digests or Casefiles and hopefully the UB, the book specifies that it is a soda. Because the primary audience for these books is way underage for either one of these things and the writers and publishers are certainly not going to set a bad example for kids. This is also why Frank and Joe shouldn't curse because it sets such a horrible example for kids. I know the concern that they come off as being unrealistic goody two shoes is there, but honestly- kids have enough bad examples. They can use all the good ones they can get. And Frank and Joe do have character flaws that they deal with- Joe is impulsive and hot-headed and loses his temper sometimes. So does Frank for that matter, but sometimes he can get a little too callous or prideful. Kids can see them as realistic brothers who deal with these kinds of things but still function together well as a team, loving and forgiving each other. I definitely see them as teetotalers (if that's spelt right- i.e. non-drinkers) and non-smokers.
I totally agree. Well said.
Quote from: SDLagent on December 18, 2010, 04:13:32 PM
Well in the era of the early Original continuity smoking wasn't considered a bad thing so it wouldn't go against the boys' "hero status". Actually, I could see Joe not smoking just to be different or a little rebellious.
Perhaps in the Originals it would have made more sense but as the series continued, it would become less likely that they would include smoking.
Joe would probably be rebellious like that. I can't see Frank doing it though either.
Now, they are both heavily into sports. Do you think this would have something to do with their not smoking or drinking? Most coaches are strict about that nowadays. I don't know how they would be back then, but I would assume that they would want to stay healthy for the sake of their work (running around the country solving crimes, running away from bad guys, chasing bad guys, lol) and for their sports as well.
I realize that the harmful risks of smoking or drinking weren't known or a concern, but I still think their active lifestyle might play a role in their choice not to smoke or drink.
I'm sure athleticism plays a role in it as well as just their own personal moral convictions of course. And maybe because Fenton said he'd skin them alive if he ever caught them doing either one. ;)
I read this book and I thought it was pretty good. They kinda worked too hard at Frank calling Joe "Little Brother." It was an interesting story though. :)
Quote from: hardygirl847 on December 18, 2010, 11:22:10 PMNow, they are both heavily into sports. Do you think this would have something to do with their not smoking or drinking? Most coaches are strict about that nowadays. I don't know how they would be back then, but I would assume that they would want to stay healthy for the sake of their work (running around the country solving crimes, running away from bad guys, chasing bad guys, lol) and for their sports as well.
I realize that the harmful risks of smoking or drinking weren't known or a concern, but I still think their active lifestyle might play a role in their choice not to smoke or drink.
Or not.
(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/F03C47F5-5889-4085-8C21-0AE8CC25D925/BE042461.jpg)
Babe Ruth. The best baseball player in the 1920s.
Babe Ruth is definitely not the best example for athletic sportsmen- lol. And honestly, there's not nearly as much athleticism required for baseball as there for other sports. (Which is not a knock against baseball, since I enjoy playing that too- being the American pastime and all. :))
Maybe, so, but it was commonplace for hockey players to have smokes and drinks together after the game well into the 40s.
Quote from: JoeHardyRocks on December 20, 2010, 11:39:49 AM
I read this book and I thought it was pretty good. They kinda worked too hard at Frank calling Joe "Little Brother." It was an interesting story though. :)
I honestly think they were just trying to set up the Break Up storyline so you had reason to believe they would be on the outs. Glad you liked it though. Are you looking forward to their (hopefully temporary) separation?
Quote from: SDLagent on December 21, 2010, 01:30:27 AM
Or not.
Babe Ruth. The best baseball player in the 1920s.
This makes a point and I don't think Mac or I are denying that smoking and/or drinking were commonplace back then. Personally, I do not smoke (although I will admit to trying it) and I only drink once in a great while. I did marry a smoker though who quit over 4 years ago.
So putting that aside, I still don't think Joe or Frank would've been into that.
Originals -maybe
RT of Originals-maybe but probably not
Early Digests-maybe
Later Digests-no
Casefiles-no
UBs-no
Crossovers-no because I can't see ND doing that either.
GNs, etc.-no
To me it's for similar reasons as to why they don't talk about them having sexual relationships. It's not part of the Hardy world. Of course we're talking about them in hypothetical situations, but that's not something they would have done because of their moral foundations.
Plus, I think Aunt Gertrude would kick their butts...maybe even before Fenton. lol
I wish we could ask Leslie about it but he's gone and didn't care for them like we do. So I'm not sure what kind of response he would have had. I could ask Larry Mike Garmon but he wrote some of the Casefiles. By the time of the Casefiles, smoking and drinking issues were different than in the 20s.
Originals -yes
RT of Originals-maybe but probably not
Early Digests-no
Later Digests-no
Casefiles-no
UBs-no
Crossovers-no because I can't see ND doing that either.
GNs, etc.-no
So we're pretty much on the same page, here.
Pretty much, yeah. The only reason I say "maybe" for the Originals and even maybe the earliest Digests is based on time period. If the writers at the time were going to have them do that, it would have been during the 20s-30s.
Actually after considering it further, I would agree with you that the early digests wouldn't have been that long ago...and therefore probably not a "maybe" or "yes".
In any event, I am glad that the Hardys don't swear, talk about sexual relationships, smoke, or drink. They are very intelligent, morally grounded, adventurous, upstanding teenagers. Definitely good role models...unlike some of the books/movies/tv shows currently available.
They do break in or a break a rule now and then....but nothing major.
Just for clarification, the "Digests" started in 1979 as a continuation of the Original 58 books that Grosset & Dunlap printed after Simon & Schuster got the copyrights. So I would definitely have to say no on that count.
Quote from: MacGyver on December 23, 2010, 09:24:32 PM
Just for clarification, the "Digests" started in 1979 as a continuation of the Original 58 books that Grosset & Dunlap printed after Simon & Schuster got the copyrights. So I would definitely have to say no on that count.
Yeah I thought that after I made that comment. The late 70s would still not be completely against teenage smoking or whatever...but I think it stands to reason that it would looked more down upon than in the late 20s.
So I stand corrected on my initial post. :)
Quote from: hardygirl847 on December 21, 2010, 03:52:25 PM
I honestly think they were just trying to set up the Break Up storyline so you had reason to believe they would be on the outs. Glad you liked it though. Are you looking forward to their (hopefully temporary) separation?
Yeah! I don't they're gonna make it LOL ;D
Quote from: JoeHardyRocks on December 26, 2010, 07:01:24 PM
Yeah! I don't they're gonna make it LOL ;D
I'm a little confused here....
I mean, Frank and Joe can't do anything without each other, they're not gonna solve the mystery, and they're gonna both get kidnapped or blown up or shot or something...LOL....... Then they'll get back together in the final 3 pages and solve it! :D
Well, we already know that there "break-up" is going to last at least two books.
Quote from: JoeHardyRocks on January 04, 2011, 01:08:19 PM
I mean, Frank and Joe can't do anything without each other, they're not gonna solve the mystery, and they're gonna both get kidnapped or blown up or shot or something...LOL....... Then they'll get back together in the final 3 pages and solve it! :D
Okay yeah I get you now. :) A twist would be 1 of them solves it by themselves. BUT eventually they will need another for one reason or another or something happens that makes them realize they need each other. It's just a matter how and when.
Quote from: SDLagent on January 05, 2011, 12:29:52 AM
Well, we already know that there "break-up" is going to last at least two books.
Right. The
Together with the Hardys cover shows ND holding them back from fighting. Can't wait!