AlwaysaJoeFan gets to go on a cool trip so she asked me if I could post the discussion for the book this time. :)
Remember...if you haven't read it but would like to discuss topics as we go, please feel free. But please remember SPOILERS will be in this thread.
What are your thoughts on The Genius Thieves??!
This is one of my faves. :) I think I liked it more this time than last time...and I always like this book when I read it. It's very Frank-centric. :)
I think it's funny that Joe flunked the entrance exam. ;D
I liked the ending, it was all very dramatic. ;D
Whoo! I'm back! I'm going to page through it again tonight, but I'll try to post my thoughts tomorrow. I am soooo tired. :-\ :P
I think Joe's failing the entrance exam was mostly a way to make it so only 1 of them got in and was around for most of the action. Plus it allowed the surprise entrance of Joe as the janitor. It kept their cover better too, IMO.
I actually really liked that Frank and Joe had to do an exam. For one, Frank studied his butt off while Joe thought he could just ace it without touching a book.
They are BOTH smart...but Frank did put the time and effort into getting into Chartwell.
While I was rereading this book, I couldn't help but think how different the UBs are when it comes to time and effort for a case. ATAC pretty much gives them an identity to get into anywhere they need to be where as in the Casefiles (such as this one), they had to EARN their way in.
Another reason why I love the Casefiles soooo much. :) Frank and Joe didn't do everything the easy way nor did they have gadgets and goodies for convenience in situations. They had to be resourceful on their own. I'm sure there are many other instances where this differs from the UBs. I'm also sure there are instances that contradict my observation too.
I also liked that this book showed Frank's slightly more aggressive side. He got into a few fights! lol Not that he started them...but still...his anger is mentioned.
On pg. 13, Joe says they will have to be juniors when they go into Chartwell (before they find out just Frank is going). I felt like that was implying that they weren't juniors or ?? I'm not really sure. I just thought was interesting to have in there and the way it was worded.
Quote from: hardygirl847 on March 18, 2011, 11:41:58 AM
On pg. 13, Joe says they will have to be juniors when they go into Chartwell (before they find out just Frank is going). I felt like that was implying that they weren't juniors or ?? I'm not really sure. I just thought was interesting to have in there and the way it was worded.
Maybe he meant that they would BOTH have to be juniors, I always thought Joe was a Junior and Frank was a Senior, but I'm probably wrong.... :-\
Well, it gets tricky.
First, Joe is telling Frank they BOTH have to be juniors, yes. Frank pretty much says that's fine.
I tend to think of Joe as a Junior and Frank as a Senior too based on their ages.
BUT in the OT bluespines, Frank is sick and has to repeat a grade. So then they are in the same grade at that point. SO I'm not sure if the Casefiles are going with the more updated Junior/Senior route which the book implies or continuing the OT version.
I know when the OTs were revised, they took Frank being sick out...didn't they??
Quote from: hardygirl847 on March 18, 2011, 11:56:33 AM
BUT in the OT bluespines, Frank is sick and has to repeat a grade. So then they are in the same grade at that point. SO I'm not sure if the Casefiles are going with the more updated Junior/Senior route which the book implies or continuing the OT version.
Wow I didn't know that. That's actually pretty cool, it makes them like totally equal in everything! ;D . Do you know what book that's in?
Anyway, Frank probably said it was fine because that would mean it wouldn't be too much work for him... Wow I'm confused, lol I don't know....
QuoteBUT in the OT bluespines, Frank is sick and has to repeat a grade. So then they are in the same grade at that point. SO I'm not sure if the Casefiles are going with the more updated Junior/Senior route which the book implies or continuing the OT version.
I know when the OTs were revised, they took Frank being sick out...didn't they??
I'm pretty sure the book you're referring to is the Original Text version of
The Great Airport Mystery - tomswift2002 or SDLAgent can probably confirm that for you.
But yeah- they set it up so that Frank had a disease and had to miss a whole school year (and you have to remember that this was in the 1930s when medicinal skills and advances were not quite on the same level as we have today) - I can't remember what he had for sure. I think it was diptheria. And anyway, this put Frank and Joe both in the same grade, despite their 1 year age difference. Remember, Frank was originally 16 and Joe was 15 in the OT books.
In the revised text, it was always stated that Frank was 18 and Joe was 17 and I'm pretty sure there were mentions at various times of Frank being a senior and Joe a junior. I know they made this clear in the Digests and I'm thinking they may also have mentioned it in the Casefiles as well. If you have access to it, you might check
Bad Chemistry and
Wild Wheels and
Toxic Revenge and
False Alarm - a few that just came to mind that are primarily set at Bayport High School (or at least have some scenes there.)
I've just always thought of Frank as 18 and Joe as 17. No matter what HB book I read. ::) ;)
Even The Clues Brothers and Secret Files? ;D (Sorry- couldn't resist.)
Quote from: MacGyver on March 19, 2011, 12:56:01 AM
Even The Clues Brothers and Secret Files? ;D (Sorry- couldn't resist.)
Never read those. What exactly are they? ???
Younger kid versions of The Hardy Boys where Frank and Joe are depicted at the ages of 9 and 8, respectively.
Quote from: MacGyver on March 19, 2011, 12:31:14 PM
Younger kid versions of The Hardy Boys where Frank and Joe are depicted at the ages of 9 and 8, respectively.
Oh, well of course they wouldn't be 17 and 18. ::) ;)
Quote from: MacGyver on March 18, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
I'm pretty sure the book you're referring to is the Original Text version of The Great Airport Mystery - tomswift2002 or SDLAgent can probably confirm that for you.
But yeah- they set it up so that Frank had a disease and had to miss a whole school year (and you have to remember that this was in the 1930s when medicinal skills and advances were not quite on the same level as we have today) - I can't remember what he had for sure. I think it was diptheria. And anyway, this put Frank and Joe both in the same grade, despite their 1 year age difference. Remember, Frank was originally 16 and Joe was 15 in the OT books.
In the revised text, it was always stated that Frank was 18 and Joe was 17 and I'm pretty sure there were mentions at various times of Frank being a senior and Joe a junior. I know they made this clear in the Digests and I'm thinking they may also have mentioned it in the Casefiles as well. If you have access to it, you might check Bad Chemistry and Wild Wheels and Toxic Revenge and False Alarm - a few that just came to mind that are primarily set at Bayport High School (or at least have some scenes there.)
I thought it was leukemia?? Oh well...anyways...I just thought it was strange how Joe put it. If they are going with the Jr and Sr thing...then Frank would have to go down a grade in order to be in Chartwell. Maybe that's what they were trying to say. Thanks for the references and such, Mac. :)
Quote from: AlwaysAJoefan on March 18, 2011, 04:44:43 PM
I've just always thought of Frank as 18 and Joe as 17. No matter what HB book I read. ::) ;)
Me too. With the exception of the Secret Files and Clues Brothers though. :)
They're actually very cute but more for the elementary grades. Casefiles would be at least middle school aged appropriate, don't you think? Some of them for sure...maybe not all of them.
QuoteThanks for the references and such, Mac.
As ALF would say, No problem! Ha! :D
QuoteCasefiles would be at least middle school aged appropriate, don't you think? Some of them for sure...maybe not all of them.
While the original Hardy Boys books and subsequent Digests series (and I would think Undercover Brothers series as well) are on a 5th. grade reading level and are aimed primarily at children- the Hardy Boys Casefiles are definitely aimed at teenagers. So yeah- middle school on up.
Agreed Mac. :)
I just noticed no one really commented on my observation that Frank had to actually earn his way into Chartwell vs given identities...etc. in the Ubs.
Read the other post for the rest.
I'm just wondering if I'm totally crazy or not...lol
No- that definitely is a good thing. I like that Frank and Joe have to work for things more in these books. That's the difference with The Network and ATAC- ATAC recruited Frank and Joe (well, they kinda had to since their dad founded the thing), but The Network just sort of grudgingly tolerates them since they pretty much know too much at this point and though it takes a lot for The Gray Man to admit it, they actually have been pretty useful and do good work. But with The Network, they use them when they want to and provide them with very little for the most part. Too Many Traitors is a great example of the stark difference in the two book series and agencies' operations.
For another comparison, much as I love James Bond (and I do really- great character and great books and great movies)- I love MacGyver even more because he isn't given all this stuff. "He doesn't even have any gear."- Dude at power plant - "That's what makes him so special"- Andy Colson in "Pilot" episode of MacGyver. :)
MacGyver is forced to make the best out of his situation and his surroundings and improvise with whatever is available- it's a lot harder for him in that regard and of course, he is highly resourceful- and I like that aspect more out of heroes- it's pretty much the same with MacGyver, Indiana Jones and The Hardy Boys. All three have some moral standards that I definitely applaud as a Christian (though I can't say that all the time for Indy- but I love him anyway ;D) - and MacGyver and Frank and Joe are definitely most always on par with that - though they have their failings too.
Well we all certainly have our failings but I liked your comparisons. Even without the Network, Frank and Joe are very resourceful and can fend for themselves.
ATAC has some cool gadgets. I love when Alex Rider gets new gadgets too, but he has always had them and he is still resourceful. I feel like the ATAC version of the Hardys makes them less of the instinctual detectives they are in the bluespines, Casefiles, and Digests.
But I guess it's trying to appeal to a different audience-a new audience-that needs more. I'm not saying if you are an UB fan that you immediately fall into that or wrong by any means.
I'm just simply stating that I prefer the fly by the seat of their pants HBs than the ATAC gave us these cool gadgets HBs.
Now I'm tired....so I hope that made sense.
lol
Quote from: hardygirl847 on March 20, 2011, 01:18:32 AM
Well we all certainly have our failings but I liked your comparisons. Even without the Network, Frank and Joe are very resourceful and can fend for themselves.
Very
MacGyver. ;)
[quote
ATAC has some cool gadgets. I love when Alex Rider gets new gadgets too, but he has always had them and he is still resourceful. I feel like the ATAC version of the Hardys makes them less of the instinctual detectives they are in the bluespines, Casefiles, and Digests.
[/quote]
Quote
I'm just simply stating that I prefer the fly by the seat of their pants HBs than the ATAC gave us these cool gadgets HBs.
That's my thinking, too. :)
Cool! :)
That is an interesting thing that always comes out -- gadgets vs. using your head. I know it was definitely brought up in the previous forum wars too.
At first I thought people such as James Bond and Alex Rider needs these gadgets because they're up against crime on an international level, but then Frank and Joe also fight at that level so there goes that argument. lol.
Side note: I'm not 100% sure on this, but ever since actor Daniel Craig took over James Bond (the new franchise), I think it might be less gadget-heavy and gadget-dependent. But obviously the big number of films before then (and in the books, I'm assuming?) are different.
Even so, (and I'm definitely a James Bond fan as much as I'm a fan of MacGyver and The Hardy Boys and Indiana Jones)- there are times when Bond's gadgets fail and there are times when he improvises on his own. I would say the Daniel Craig movies definitely seemed to emphasize that more, but I think some of Pierce Brosnan's films had a few such moments too.