The Tower Treasure (Book Club Discussion)

[SDLagent]

I also wish I had read this before reading any other book. I constantly have to fight against the HB world of Casefiles and fan fiction to get through this book. I liked it and all...don't get me wrong. It just made it harder to see it in my brain and read it as it is without allowing my already built  HB world in my mind interfere... And some of the lingo was funny. Helter-skelter, fellows, chums (which I guess some people still use), a dud  rocket, etc....

I didn't read The Tower Treasure first, but I read most of Original Series before I read any Casefiles and definitely before I read any fan fiction. I'm glad I read these early stories first, and try to do this, now, whenever I get into a new series. And, of course, I always read the book before I watch the movie.

This is also a British thing.

Actually, I think it's just an American thing not to, because until now, I wouldn't have thought anything of hearing holiday in this context.

[hardygirl847]

MacGyver,

Yeah I remember hearing "holiday" being used in British shows or movies etc. I have seen Mr. Bean's Holiday. Unfortunately, I cannot agree that it was hilarious. Maybe it was because I was with 25 squirming children in a movie theater at the time...I don't know. But I realize it's their way of saying "vacation".

That is a funny part of the book. I will agree that reading a book that you know was written in the 20s will have unintentional language usage humor. There were quite a few things that were said that I just giggled because they definitely would NOT say that now.

Chapter 3 is not mentioned as the Trace of the Thief in what I can assume is the RT. It is The Threat.

Does anyone have both copies and know if this reference is in both of them? And how much of the OT was changed when they revised it?

I didn't read The Tower Treasure first, but I read most of Original Series before I read any Casefiles and definitely before I read any fan fiction. I'm glad I read these early stories first, and try to do this, now, whenever I get into a new series. And, of course, I always read the book before I watch the movie.

Actually, I think it's just an American thing not to, because until now, I wouldn't have thought anything of hearing holiday in this context.

That is a smart thing to do. I found Casefiles first and got hooked when I was a young teen so I never started off with the classics. Knowing myself at that age, I don't know if I would have become a huge fan if I started with the bluespines. Before you hate me (lol)...I was 12 or 13 and was boy crazy. I wanted adventure, danger, etc. The casefiles provided me with this. So I appreciate the classics more because I am older, more mature, and can value them more.

All in all, I think it worked out. But sometimes I have to remember what is "real" or canon and what has been altered from reading or writing other Hardy universes. It makes for interesting reading.

I also agree that most Americans would not know that "holiday" is also "vacation" because it's not in our normal vocabulary but it's just another sign of the times...and place.

[tomswift2002]

What reference are you referring to?

When the book was revised in 1959 the main plot was not changed (the most change to that was to what was stolen from the Applegates).  But a number of the subplots that Leslie McFarlane put in to expand upon the characters, such as Chet being a practical joker and playing jokes, or even the characterizations of Chief Collig and Detective Smuff were either changed or deleted from the text altogether.  In the Original there is a fairly length scene with Chet and an auto horn that was removed altogether from the RT book. 

Of course the one thing that was not removed was the pidgin English used by the farmers in Chapter 2, although some of that dialogue was changed.

So Tower Treasure was one of the few early books that managed to get through the Revision period without much changing in the book, compared to other McFarlane texts such as The Secret Of The Old Mill, Footprints Under the Window and The Melted Coins.

Does anyone have both copies and know if this reference is in both of them? And how much of the OT was changed when they revised it?

[hardygirl847]

This is also a British thing. For example, see "Mr. Bean's Holiday". He's not celebrating Christmas, Easter, Arbor Day or any such holiday or whatever- he's just taking a vacation. (Seriously- see the movie- it's hilarious! And totally clean! And rated G! )
I'm familiar with that usage of "holidays" mainly due to reading numerous Enid Blyton books as a child. (still love 'em- can't beat The Secret Seven and The Famous Five!)

Anyway- back to The Tower Treasure...
BEST line in the whole book thus far (from the OT)

At the start of Chapter III "Traces of the Thief"- right after Chet Morton's car has been stolen- Chet makes this remark to Frank and Joe.

"The car is pretty well known around Bayport," said Chet. "It is certainly a gay-looking speed-wagon. Any one who saw it would remember it."

LOL! Now I know exactly what Chet is meaning here- the original meaning of gay (and it does still mean this) is "happy". Thus, in the lyrics of The Flinstones' theme song, we'll have a gay old time!
But obviously Leslie McFarlane couldn't have foreseen modern usage of that word and reading that passage with the current connotations in mind is just (unintentionally) hilarious!

tomswift...this is what I think I was referring to as well as in general. It seems that a lot of the OT and the RT don't link up.

Interesting...

[tomswift2002]

Well with the word "gay" I seem to recall that some of the Revisions use the word when they are describing a party or a girl's dress ("gay" appeared in the Tom Swift Jr. (1954-1971) novels a few in relation to how Sandy and Phyllis' dresses looked on them).  As far as "gay" goes in terms of the connotation nowadays, that really didn't start to appear till the late-80's.

[MacGyver]

Right- I know. I'm just thinking it's funny of term's of today's young readership trying to read the original text Hardy Boys books and finding that line in there- I can just see that connotation being the first thing they think of rather than thinking of "happy". Of course, I don't even necessarily mean in the sense of gay meaning homosexual. Nowadays people will call something "gay" to mean "bad" or "lame" or "fail", etc.

[hardygirl847]

Well it is quite unfortunate that this term is used so poorly nowadays. I don't want to get into a whole new topic here but it's like the word retarded. Why use words that can really demean a group of people?

Kids today giggle at this instead of realize that back then it had a WHOLE different meaning.

I better not say anymore....I will get all worked up about it.

Aside from the language differences, what do you think about the gender roles that are somewhat illustrated in Tower Treasure (as well as other original books)?

[SDLagent]

Aside from the language differences, what do you think about the gender roles that are somewhat illustrated in Tower Treasure (as well as other original books)?

I think they rock. Women should be seen and not heard.

[MacGyver]

Word.
LOL

[hardygirl847]

I think they rock. Women should be seen and not heard.

WHOA NOW! That best be a joke mister!!

[tomswift2002]

Well it is quite unfortunate that this term is used so poorly nowadays. I don't want to get into a whole new topic here but it's like the word retarded. Why use words that can really demean a group of people?

I remember that when I was in Grade 7, back in 97, one of my classmates used the term in class one day, and we had a supply teacher in and the supply teacher heard him and mentioned how back in his day "gay" had meant quite a different thing from the connotation of the mid- to late-90's.

[hardygirl847]

That's interesting that it would be brought up in school but we can't deny that it was used in a different context. However, we can strive to use it properly so we don't offend people.

[SDLagent]

That's interesting that it would be brought up in school but we can't deny that it was used in a different context. However, we can strive to use it properly so we don't offend people.

I only offend people when it's funny.

[MacGyver]

Okay, I found another of those original meaning meets modern usage things.
At the end of chapter 5 "The Arrest"-

"There, in a neat, but sparsely furnished apartment, they found Mrs. Robinson, a gentle, kindly-faced woman, somewhat lame, who was sitting anxiously in a chair by the window."

Again- I know exactly what is meant (she's a little crippled)- but still, it's so funny reading it with a modern young adult mindset. Reminds me of a funny book title by Dinah Maria Mulock Craik- "The Little Lame Prince".
lol

[MacGyver]

Another thing I noticed in the original text- why are Adelia and Hurd Applegate so mean to the Hardy Boys when they're trying to help them recover their stolen items by searching the Towers? Hurd does eventually actually help them (and from what I can tell I think both characters redeem themselves by the end of the book)- but they really act kinda funny considering Frank and Joe are just trying to recover their jewels and bonds.