Casefiles crossovers with the Digests

[MacGyver]

That may well be it- when I get a chance, I'll have to look through those books to confirm it...

[Hardy Boys UB Fan]

That may well be it- when I get a chance, I'll have to look through those books to confirm it...

I'm thinking that's it too, but I might be wrong.

[tomswift2002]

The other time was in Double Exposure.

[Hardy Boys UB Fan]

The other time was in Double Exposure.

What did he do in that one?

[tomswift2002]

Larry helped Chris make that fake Soviet assination tape, got the Hardy's fake entrance passes to that foreign nations convention, and agreed to teach classes with Chris.

[Hardy Boys UB Fan]

Larry helped Chris make that fake Soviet assination tape, go the Hardy's fake entrance passes to that foreign nations convention, and agreed to teach classes with Chris.

Oh yeah. Now I remember.

[MacGyver]

By the way, I don't suppose anyone's noticed any similar scenarios with the Undercover Brothers series? (i.e. No Casefiles or other series connections or anything?) I still have a collection of those books and still have yet to read them - it's kinda sad but perhaps not considering all that I've heard about them. I will get around to some of them eventually. It would be neat if some of the classic characters were utilized again- Jack Wayne, Sam Radley, maybe even Oscar Smuff just for fun. Do Chief Collig and Con Riley even show up anymore?
That might be an interesting topic- how best would some of those older characters fit into the UB continuity?

Going back to this question some, I sort of had an idea on how it might be possible to kinda tie in all the continuities together. The original series of The Hardy Boys is already established as being continued by the Digests. The Casefiles is generally considered to be an offshoot and its own thing, as the death of Iola would set it in an alternate universe. It's possible those books could be set after the Digests series. It would make sense for the Undercover Brothers series to follow after that one in the continuity, but what if it is actually more of a prequel? This would actually help explain some of the differences in the maturity level and characterizations of Frank and Joe in the UB vs. Casefiles universes.

What if the continuity ran like this?
- The original 58 (revised 38), which is followed by the Digests. Toward the end of the Digests, we've already noted how much some of them start to read like Casefiles, particularly obviously Revenge of the Desert Phantom. What if when the Digests ended, it led into the Undercover Brothers series? ATAC already sounds so much like a junior version of The Network anyway- just that it's obviously more of a private organization that works with the police and FBI and CIA, etc. (similar to The Phoenix Foundation in MacGyver or FLAG in Knight Rider, etc.) We know that Fenton Hardy founded ATAC- Eventually QT is appointed as head of the group. Is he ever seen though? Are there any details known about him? From what I've heard of him, he seems to be like Charlie on Charlie's Angels- heard in order to give out new missions, but never seen. (I could be wrong on that- that's just my impression.) Anyway, what if QT was really the Gray Man? Maybe he got together with Fenton Hardy to establish ATAC as sort of an experiment- a trial run to see how adopting younger agents in the field would work out- essentially like a 21 Jump Street program. Younger, high school kids can get into places older agents can't, so it makes sense.
     Remember that throughout the Casefiles series, the Gray Man had a grudging respect for Frank and Joe and still generally thought of them as kids who should leave things to the professionals, but nonetheless kids who are honest and do a good job and can be useful at times.  Also, remember how they met in the Casefiles- The Gray Man introduced himself as Arthur E. Gray, a client of their father's. This would be technically true (sort of) if he had recruited Fenton's help in establishing ATAC. Anyway, the point is that immediately a link was made between Fenton Hardy and the Gray Man, and thus the Network- more than likely suggesting that Fenton had done some "hush hush" work (that is, undercover) for the Network in the past. Perhaps by the end of the Undercover Brothers series, the Gray Man and the Network at large, along with Fenton Hardy's wishes, have decided to disband the UB program, having already selected their top choices for young field agents- Frank and Joe Hardy being the top ones of course. (Perhaps Lindsay Rider from the graphic novels could be another one.) So basically ATAC would have served as a training ground for the Network though none of the agents of that group would have been aware of it. The Network was content to let it operate as such on the level it was on until reaching the point where they were ready to take on some part time and/or full time younger agents.
        Obviously the Gray Man never really fully agreed with The Network's decision on this- perhaps he was comfortable with the position he had as ATAC head (i.e. QT) and thought the Hardys did better there under closer supervision. But then the Network decided to move forward and give the Hardys' and others a chance and let them in on much more serious and dangerous cases, including matters of national security, that the Network is involved in.
         And then, in Dead on Target, while the Hardys were secretly on their last ATAC mission to help provide security for the presidential candidate Philip Walker- the Assasins got in there and not only performed their dry run at the mall, but also aimed to take out the Hardy Boys, who had proven to be formidable adversaries. But sadly, Iola got caught in the crossfire and was killed.
And then the Hardy Boys did meet up with the Gray Man, as he had to make his presence known at this point, though still in a shroud of secrecy, with a new code name (from QT to The Gray Man), and reluctantly forged a partnership with them to help protect them during this case.  The Hardy Boys helped solve the case and this gave them the impetus to pursue the more important cases of the world like this- and of course, also served as their iniation into The Network by passing this final test and impressing the Network by actually coming to them and asking for tougher assignments.
       And thus The Hardy Boys Casefiles universe is born!
(As to whether or not Iola is still alive- if we want to take into account The Lazarus Plot and Dead of Night, we can still postulate that there is still a chance, albeit pretty incredibly slim, that Iola is still alive and could still be rescued and return to the land of the living, as it were.)

[SDLagent]

MacGyver, your explanation's as good as any. I've tried to fit the continuities before too. Either I fit the UB in before the Casefiles, like you, or before the Digests. 

[MacGyver]

It could possibly work going before the Digests too, if only to help explain Frank and Joe's lesser maturity level due to them just plain being younger and more immature...(which could work if we assume that from #39-58 of the Originals, Frank and Joe actually stayed at 16 and 15, rather than 18 and 17 and that they kept their more rambunctious natures of the Original Text- which was a good bit more restrained in the Revised Text.)

[tomswift2002]

Frank and Joe were 18 and 17 by bothe versions of The Shore Road Mystery, and in the first UB Chet mentions that Frank and Joe have solved a number of cases (and by "a number", I don't think Chet was referring to just six cases or even their kiddie cases).  With Extreme Danger it seemed like the UB's were too take place after the Original series, but then the UB's continuity just went out the window to where the UB's seemed to be rebooting or where in another dimension.  Plus the UB's just offered up too many contradictions to the other series to even make sense with them.  At least with the Casefiles, while there were contradictions on minor things (such as how the boys got their van), the series seemed to support the fact that it took place after the Original series.

[Bigfootman]

Going back to this question some, I sort of had an idea on how it might be possible to kinda tie in all the continuities together. The original series of The Hardy Boys is already established as being continued by the Digests. The Casefiles is generally considered to be an offshoot and its own thing, as the death of Iola would set it in an alternate universe. It's possible those books could be set after the Digests series. It would make sense for the Undercover Brothers series to follow after that one in the continuity, but what if it is actually more of a prequel? This would actually help explain some of the differences in the maturity level and characterizations of Frank and Joe in the UB vs. Casefiles universes.

What if the continuity ran like this?
- The original 58 (revised 38), which is followed by the Digests. Toward the end of the Digests, we've already noted how much some of them start to read like Casefiles, particularly obviously Revenge of the Desert Phantom. What if when the Digests ended, it led into the Undercover Brothers series? ATAC already sounds so much like a junior version of The Network anyway- just that it's obviously more of a private organization that works with the police and FBI and CIA, etc. (similar to The Phoenix Foundation in MacGyver or FLAG in Knight Rider, etc.) We know that Fenton Hardy founded ATAC- Eventually QT is appointed as head of the group. Is he ever seen though? Are there any details known about him? From what I've heard of him, he seems to be like Charlie on Charlie's Angels- heard in order to give out new missions, but never seen. (I could be wrong on that- that's just my impression.) Anyway, what if QT was really the Gray Man? Maybe he got together with Fenton Hardy to establish ATAC as sort of an experiment- a trial run to see how adopting younger agents in the field would work out- essentially like a 21 Jump Street program. Younger, high school kids can get into places older agents can't, so it makes sense.
     Remember that throughout the Casefiles series, the Gray Man had a grudging respect for Frank and Joe and still generally thought of them as kids who should leave things to the professionals, but nonetheless kids who are honest and do a good job and can be useful at times.  Also, remember how they met in the Casefiles- The Gray Man introduced himself as Arthur E. Gray, a client of their father's. This would be technically true (sort of) if he had recruited Fenton's help in establishing ATAC. Anyway, the point is that immediately a link was made between Fenton Hardy and the Gray Man, and thus the Network- more than likely suggesting that Fenton had done some "hush hush" work (that is, undercover) for the Network in the past. Perhaps by the end of the Undercover Brothers series, the Gray Man and the Network at large, along with Fenton Hardy's wishes, have decided to disband the UB program, having already selected their top choices for young field agents- Frank and Joe Hardy being the top ones of course. (Perhaps Lindsay Rider from the graphic novels could be another one.) So basically ATAC would have served as a training ground for the Network though none of the agents of that group would have been aware of it. The Network was content to let it operate as such on the level it was on until reaching the point where they were ready to take on some part time and/or full time younger agents.
        Obviously the Gray Man never really fully agreed with The Network's decision on this- perhaps he was comfortable with the position he had as ATAC head (i.e. QT) and thought the Hardys did better there under closer supervision. But then the Network decided to move forward and give the Hardys' and others a chance and let them in on much more serious and dangerous cases, including matters of national security, that the Network is involved in.
         And then, in Dead on Target, while the Hardys were secretly on their last ATAC mission to help provide security for the presidential candidate Philip Walker- the Assasins got in there and not only performed their dry run at the mall, but also aimed to take out the Hardy Boys, who had proven to be formidable adversaries. But sadly, Iola got caught in the crossfire and was killed.
And then the Hardy Boys did meet up with the Gray Man, as he had to make his presence known at this point, though still in a shroud of secrecy, with a new code name (from QT to The Gray Man), and reluctantly forged a partnership with them to help protect them during this case.  The Hardy Boys helped solve the case and this gave them the impetus to pursue the more important cases of the world like this- and of course, also served as their iniation into The Network by passing this final test and impressing the Network by actually coming to them and asking for tougher assignments.
       And thus The Hardy Boys Casefiles universe is born!
(As to whether or not Iola is still alive- if we want to take into account The Lazarus Plot and Dead of Night, we can still postulate that there is still a chance, albeit pretty incredibly slim, that Iola is still alive and could still be rescued and return to the land of the living, as it were.)

While this is a good theory, I see a major problem:
In order for this theory to work, the Nancy Drew series would have to have a simular timeline. But this is impossible for several reasons:
1) Brenda Carlton started being Nancy Drew's rival during the Nancy Drew Notebooks. She also made at least one appearence in a Digest, during which she was already working with the "Today's Times". If the GDs take place between the Digests and Files, where was Brenda during the GDs? Ned was working for a newspaper during the GDs, if I recall correctly, yet Brenda never got one mention. And what happened to Deirdre Shannon during the Nancy Drew Files? 
2) During the GDs, Bess has some auto machanic skills, but this is never shown during the Digests, nor during the Files (Altough her car was stolen in "Hot Tracks")
3) A simular problem is that George was more of a computer nerd in the GDs then in the Files and Digests.
4) Nancy's car in the GDs was a hybrid, yet in "Secrets Can Kill", she's driving a Mustang, which then blows up. What happpened to the hybrid?
5) Nancy was very forgetfull in the GD series, even forgetting to get gas. This never happened during the Digests and Files.

[MacGyver]

Well, thanks- but yeah, it can't account for all discrepancies of course. And I haven't read enough of the Nancy Drew books to address all the issues presented there. But yes- these are all good points. The best I can think of is perhaps Brenda Carlton moved away for a time during the Girl Detective books- went away to a private school somewhere or something. As to Deidre Shannon, presumably she moved away during the Nancy Drew Files or just ceased being a large part of Nancy's life anymore for whatever reason. For Bess and George's auto mechanics/computer skills (respectively)- I guess we can say maybe their interests faded over time. Presumably Nancy traded in her hybrid car for the Mustang. As to Nancy being forgetful, maybe she developed that trait after the stress and weight of all her cases in the Digests started getting to her. By the time of The Nancy Drew Files, she had matured even more and learned how to handle it better and got better organized.
    I know ultimately the real answer to it all is that we just don't have a very good continuity in the GD or UB series- but then, I don't think either one was intended to be totally in sync with their predecessors. So this is just an attempt on my part to give some sort of explanations and connection and maintain some semblance of continuity that may or may not make a little bit more sense.

[SDLagent]

I know ultimately the real answer to it all is that we just don't have a very good continuity in the GD or UB series- but then, I don't think either one was intended to be totally in sync with their predecessors. So this is just an attempt on my part to give some sort of explanations and connection and maintain some semblance of continuity that may or may not make a little bit more sense.

It's fun to try to fit the continuities together but, like you say, I don't think the UB were intended to match-up with the past series. It was a reboot.

Sort of off-topic but just thought of it...It may be hard to fit all the Hardy continuities together but try doing it with Tom Swift!

[tomswift2002]

It's just like with the Tom Swift Young Inventor series, the series took a little bit from the TSSR & TSJR series and basically mixed it up in a giant pot and then gave claim for some inventions to the wrong Swift, and, unlike the Wanderer and Archway series where you could see them taking place years after the first two series, with YI there was just so many contradictions that the only continuities that YI worked with we're the GD & UB continuities.

[SDLagent]

I did like the Young Inventor series though. And even if they were inaccurate, I liked the references to the past series. It's still better than the UB which completely ignored Hardy history. 

There's also Tom Swift III but that takes place in the far future so doesn't contradict much.